Comments

• 30/09/2008 @ 21:29 Wolfie said

  

  Hello JayT. i am so sorry that you are feeling this way. How did your friend tell you that she didn't want to talk? You are certainly not that bad and perhaps she didn't see or feel your need? Let's keep talking and see if we can figure out a way forward from here. Big hug, Wx

• 01/10/2008 @ 06:31 roze said

  

  Hey JayT. Last year I felt like a lot of my friends were not able to be around me. I did not realise then that i was not 'present' to be with or asking for what i needed. Do you feel that you have made clear what you really need and are you comfortable saying things like 'i just need a hug'. a large warm hug from me, roze

• 01/10/2008 @ 08:22 JayT said

  

  Hi Wolfie, Hi Roze.
  Thank you for posting and your hugs, very gratefully received!
  I am so aware that my safe mode is to withdraw, seemingly to protect myself from the chance that I maybe rejected or hurt. Knowing that, I made a very conscious effort to be quite open in my need to talk. I even said to my friend that sometimes I just want a hug and to know that someone is thinking of me, dare I say it, even caring about what is going on with me. This has not improved matters at all. The rejection that scares me the most, seems to have happened again. I spoke to my counsellor about the situation, and she seemed to suggest that some friendships can be unhealthy, and in that respect, sometimes it is better to move on from these. I found this advice understandable but terrifying. The friend I spoke about is probably the only person I have ever really trusted. I spoke to her about things I had uncovered with my counsellor and since then, our relationship has been on the decline. I guess I have trouble dealing with the fact that she seemed to remove herself from me when I so desparately needed a friend.I just don't know how I will cope without her friendship and at the moment, the friendship seems to have altered into something more resembling an aquaintance. Needless to say, this whole situation has triggerred my safety mechanism and now I just don't want to see anyone. I think aswell, my friend seems to be a catalyst for my other friends, and they seem to respond to her behaviour and actions. Needless to say, I am very lost at the moment and the urge to go away is strong. I just don't know what I can do, or even if trying to do anything is the right way.
  JayT
  

• 01/10/2008 @ 08:32 roze said

  

  The need for self protection is very high when we build relationships like these as we are extremely vulnerable to any shifts in them. I can understand that you feel like retreating. Do you sense there is any truth in what your counsellor said about it being an unhealthy relationship? And is it possible to observe to your friend that you sense she has moved away since you spoke to her so openly? Another hug, roze

• 01/10/2008 @ 09:09 UMxx said

  

  Hey Jay T, It might be that the thing between you and your friend is what you have in common - you are open in explaining that your safety mechanism is to withdraw - and it sounds like it is the same for your friend - maybe it is the similarity in your characters that was the attraction. I know this won't stop the hurt though. Your friend might just be scared - but right now you need people who are not scared of you and are prepared to listen - and give you the hugs you need.

  I am sending over a big box of hugs for you - thinking of you xxxx UM x

• 01/10/2008 @ 21:11 JayT said

  

  Hi Roze, Hi UM, thank you both for responding and of course hugs, again much appreciated.
  I am not really sure as to how to value my friendship now. I guess that at present it is not healthy for me and yet the thought of not having her around is terrifying. I think I just keep thinking back to how things were before IO spoke so openly about what was happening to me... if only she could be there for me, as I do desparatelt need right now. I have spoken to her about my concerns that we seem to have become distant since I was so open. She responded by saying that she felt unable to offer me any opinion or advice and that it would be best for a professional to help me. I did explain that actually, what I really needed was just to know she was there, to be able to just be, not necessarily talk about what was happening, and of course just to have a friends hug. She basically did not respond to this. It's funny that you used the word scared UM, I guess that is a good way of how I feel she is reacting to me. She has made it now very clear that any discussion on a personal level, she will not enter into and yet in the same text, she told me that she wasn't rejecting me, wasn't disinterested and that she loved me very much. So what now? I am just purely devastated and can't see a way forward.

• 01/10/2008 @ 22:34 UMxx said

  

  Hey JayT, Is there a chance that you friend has never learnt how to express herself with hugs and conversation? It isn't that unusual.

  She has told you that she loves you very much - hang onto that - that might have taken her a lot of courage to say. I don't think that you are losing you friend Jay T but I do think that you friend is just not able to support you in the way that you wish - a difference between won't and can't and not able. Again this doesn't really make you feel better I know. I wonder whether the way forward for you needs to be about what you need to move ahead - and your friend might well be on her own journey.

  Is there a chance that she feels that she is without much to offer you? I wonder if you said to her that you don't need advice or opinions you just need someone to listen would that take some of the pressure off her thinking that there are great expectations of her as a friend - or is there a chance that she is in an odd way suggesting that you might consider professional support? (I don't know whether you see someone)

  Sorry that I am asking so many questions - just that someone who says that they love you very much might not know how to express it in other ways. thinking of you UM xxxxx

• 02/10/2008 @ 13:11 JayT said

  

  Hi UM.
  The thing is that we did have a very warm supportive relationship. We both were able to share good times and bad and the hugs. She did explain that she had no real knowledge of what I was going through and that she didn't want to offer advice that may be detrimental. I am seeing a counsellor regularly and was at the time of opening up to her. I did tell her that what I needed more than anything was to know I wasn't alone dealing with things and that just sometimes I needed to know she was there. This is no longer happening, and infact noticably began to decline after my candor. To be honest I am struggling to over come my feelings of rejection when I really needed her most, when I had real fears of making it forward. And yet, the thought of no longer having that friendship I find unbearable. I guess she has been the only person I have really trusted, and to see those foundations crumble leaves me very exposed, wounded and unable to see a way forward.

• 02/10/2008 @ 13:38 UMxx said

  

  Well Jay T, this is so sad and what ever is in her thinking or reaction it is an awful feeling to feel rejected. Given she is the one person that you have trusted then it makes it horrible - it is hard enough to trust for the first time leave alone find that the person withdraws from us. I know you will talk to your counsellor about this. Apart from asking her if there is something on her mind that she hasn't told you maybe there isn't much of a conversation that you can have with her at the moment. maybe continue to do the things that you feel "safe" doing with her - and if you feel too vulnerable even for this - then maybe as hard as it is you need to leave her alone. Maybe you have grown beyond where she can reach you? I am always happy to listen and support you here - on this brick or by pm if you prefer,

  What is happening for you at the moment - in addition to this sadness? Whatever it is it will now have a layer of grief from this experience with your friend. None of us want to be hit with a whammy while we are down.

  The way forward is there - it's just that it is too early to see it yet. with love
  UM xxx

• 02/10/2008 @ 14:11 Mebenji said

  

  Hi Jay T,

  So sorry to see you feeling so hurt and alone. Sadly, when the dynamics of a friendship change - leaves us feeling insecure and vulnerable, and we gotta try to move on, I suppose, to new friendships. Maybe rely on your Counsellor a lot more to be the one who will listen.

  I can only imagine how hard it was to ask and ask - I never dared when I needed, not for many years, and when I did it was still so hard. The response I got, the change in the relationship I had with the person I trusted, though very different to what your friend's was, nevertheless opened my eyes to some deeply disturbing part of this person and I came to realise it was a friendship that was doing me much more harm than good, more and more the longer I clung to it. It was dreadfully hard; makes me so wary now to become involved. Yeah, like you, I tend to withdraw, keeping it all to myself, hiding it away - very common I understand, simply seems the safest, least risky way to go. It hurts though. It doesn't help us to heal. Next time, I think, I will be more careful to think about how I will feel and what I will do if someone I ask directly for help or an ear or a hug refuses my request.

  (((HUGS))) from the heart

  -Mebenji

• 02/10/2008 @ 17:39 JayT said

  

  Thank you UM and Mebenji, your comments and hugs are so welcome.
  I know what you are both saying is making alot of sense. I too believe that really, the only way forward is perhaps drawing a line under this relationship... yet I am not sure if I have the strength to do this, even though she is making me feel so hurt. I know I am withdrawing completely, and I realise that this is also not healthy for me yet, it is the mechanism that I keep returning to when in crisis. I guess there have been many triggers recently, that I am very conscious of past events and how I dealt with those then... the simularities are scary. I am indeed relying on my counsellor for the person who will listen and it does help some. Alas, if only I could have someone listen to me without having to pay them for their time. Deep down, I think i realise that the friendship dynamic with my friend will not improve and that I need to move on, but after nearly twenty years of wonderful times, gosh, that is so hard to do ... Weirdly, I feel like I am grieving right now. I wish I could be hopeful for the future, but I'm not convinced. I wish I had never shared my dirty little secret.... but just maybe she would have rejected me anyway, who knows? So sorry, trying hard to rationalise things at the moment, but my head is just spinning right now.

• 02/10/2008 @ 19:47 harmony said

  

  This is difficult one, JayT, and you feel deelpy hurt and unfortunately that won't be undone.

  
  Like yourself, many of us would like to talk to someone at a deep level and not need to pay, but the unfortunately is that friends are not there as stand in counsellors. The reality is that we use counsellors because it is one way support - we get given support and don't need to offer anything in return, except the money.

  I have never found that the realms of friendship included a friend being able to live up to what, at times, were my expectations that they should be able to give me a listening ear when what I really needed was a counselling session. And once or twice in my life I sort of just came out with things that were too personal - and it changed and killed the friendship. I made those friends uncomfortable because I crossed the line into having unrealistic expectations of them.... and I had no right to expect that they should be there to meet an agenda I chose to think up - eg I'll share my deepest wounds and tell you I really need you and will use you to be there for me and get hugs and make me feel safe etc.

  It has never worked for me - stopped trying it about 25 years ago because I sussed out that it wasn't a shared agenda - it was me trying to impose the sharing of my wounds on them and being way too heavy for their comfort..and they felt I had spoiled the frienship - which I had.

  Once a friend used me as a listening ear but I agreed to it - she asked and I agreed and it was only a session over tea once a fortnight for her to vent...but it was fine because I wasn't having anything imposed on me that that hadn't agreed to and also by that time I was trained in counseling and was used to people talking to me about deep, personal issues. We are still friends and we don't do the listening ear bit... at least not for things we might go to counselling with.

  I think you may have spooked your friend by especting her to be there in a way that is beyond what she thought was part of your freindship and sounds to be feeling very uncomfortable - and has every right to do so and to not do what you expect of her.. because she didn't agree to it and clearly wouldn't have agreed to it because she didn't feel in any way able to support you in the way you want.

  I dont think the damage can be undone; the relationship can ever be the same again. It is a very painful lesson to learn but we cannot make friends be there for us in ways we might like just because we think they should be and we'd like their support. Some relationships, like your counsellor said and you are staring to believe, need to end. A few months ago I ended a frindship with someone because I got sick and tired of being talked to about her ill health all the time, visit after visit, phone call after phone call. This person wanted me to be a pseudo doctor once she became ill (after serveral years of friendship)and I couldn't seem to get her off the topic no matter what. I hadn't ever agreed to listen to all that, didn't want to and grew completely pissed off that she had turned the friendship into her expeceting me to care for her and listen to her - all one way.. No thanks!I ended it. Seems harsh? It was ruined and it couldn't go back to what it was and I felt it was dragging me down, so I got out..and felt much better for it.

  I honestly had no intention of rambling on at length here. I'd like to remind you that when a friendship ends it leaves energy for new things. It all about the flow of live and moving on and growing in to new and different ways of being.

  I hope you will find all the strength to let go of this person and moce on to peace and love ahead.

  Lot of love, Harmony
  Apologies for all errors - I cannot type in small boxes

• 03/10/2008 @ 08:49 JayT said

  

  Hi Harmony, thank you for posting.
  I think some of what you say, makes sense, and echos for me, however, I am not so sure that I work with such a defined agenda. At the stage that I shared my secret with my friend, I was not conscious that I had an agenda thought up! I actually chose to talk because at that stage I was really scared of what was going on for me, and my behaviour had caused some concern for those around me. I had expressed at that time, and other times that it was just good to know that I could just have that hug, a space just to have a cry, yes I guess a safe place and that talking around the issues that I was facing was for the counsellors room. I don't believe I have ever intended to use my friend, maybe I cannot see my own behaviour patterns. I presumably must be mistaken that over the course of the years where we have supported each other without question, and yes very much a two way street that I may have some expectation that she remain a constant in a very turbulent time as I have done for her on many a tough occasion. I don't honestly believe that I have ever tried to 'make friends be there' for me, I have always understood that true friendship is about mutual respect, give and take and sharing... good and bad... maybe I'm wrong!
  Yes, you are right, I do need to move on from this friend, no matter how painful it feels as even though I am hurting, I still love her very much.
  I believe I have been very responsible and proactive in my actions to deal with the trauma encountered, counselling, medication etc.... and truly believed that I was not expecting too much from a friendship that I had never swerved from in the last 20 years.... Hell, maybe I am just too blind to see at the moment.